-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 26
New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
syringe, injection, and injection function #1662
Comments
@cmungall and I talked about this a bit on Slack last week. @bpeters42 do you want to raise this issue on Monday's call, when you're chairing? |
That is a good idea.
…On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:22 AM James A. Overton ***@***.***> wrote:
@cmungall <https://github.com/cmungall> and I talked about this a bit on
Slack last week. @bpeters42 <https://github.com/bpeters42> do you want to
raise this issue on Monday's call, when you're chairing?
—
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
<#1662 (comment)>,
or unsubscribe
<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADJX2ISC4BYX4KTSENWUFIDW3CW3NANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I>
.
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
***@***.***>
--
Bjoern Peters
Professor
La Jolla Institute for Immunology
9420 Athena Circle
La Jolla, CA 92037, USA
Tel: 858/752-6914
Fax: 858/752-6987
http://www.liai.org/pages/faculty-peters
|
One idea is to bring certain parts of obi (processes, material entities ,
data objects) to the foreground more. Perhaps a release subset with some
bfo branches removed. I would go further but I understand there are users
of the other branches
…On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 12:13 PM bpeters42 ***@***.***> wrote:
That is a good idea.
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:22 AM James A. Overton ***@***.***>
wrote:
> @cmungall <https://github.com/cmungall> and I talked about this a bit on
> Slack last week. @bpeters42 <https://github.com/bpeters42> do you want
to
> raise this issue on Monday's call, when you're chairing?
>
> —
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <#1662 (comment)
>,
> or unsubscribe
> <
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADJX2ISC4BYX4KTSENWUFIDW3CW3NANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I
>
> .
> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
> ***@***.***>
>
--
Bjoern Peters
Professor
La Jolla Institute for Immunology
9420 Athena Circle
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/9420+Athena+Circle+%0D%0ALa+Jolla,+CA+92037,+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>
La Jolla, CA 92037, USA
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/9420+Athena+Circle+%0D%0ALa+Jolla,+CA+92037,+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>
Tel: 858/752-6914
Fax: 858/752-6987
http://www.liai.org/pages/faculty-peters
—
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
<#1662 (comment)>,
or unsubscribe
<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAAMMOOVJ2MTNZSDSPZWFMTW3DR7RANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I>
.
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
***@***.***>
|
Thanks Chris, for the awesome writeup and the follow up. We have been
attempting to do what you proposed a bit by favoring the 'planned process'
branch over others. So for example we (should be) favoring the 'injection
process' over the 'injection function'. And use a shortcut relation between
the devices that have a function and the process that realizes it. As with
everything OBI, implementing this requires someone driving it, and the
current focus of our efforts has been on assays and specimens. Devices has
been on our 'next to do list' for a while, but we are slow. At a minimum
though, we should have the design pattern (and shortcut relation) apparent
and documented in COB. We will discuss as a group Monday and get back to
you.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 8:00 AM Chris Mungall ***@***.***>
wrote:
… One idea is to bring certain parts of obi (processes, material entities ,
data objects) to the foreground more. Perhaps a release subset with some
bfo branches removed. I would go further but I understand there are users
of the other branches
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 12:13 PM bpeters42 ***@***.***> wrote:
> That is a good idea.
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:22 AM James A. Overton ***@***.***>
> wrote:
>
> > @cmungall <https://github.com/cmungall> and I talked about this a bit
on
> > Slack last week. @bpeters42 <https://github.com/bpeters42> do you want
> to
> > raise this issue on Monday's call, when you're chairing?
> >
> > —
> > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> > <
#1662 (comment)
> >,
> > or unsubscribe
> > <
>
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADJX2ISC4BYX4KTSENWUFIDW3CW3NANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I
> >
> > .
> > You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
> > ***@***.***>
> >
>
>
> --
> Bjoern Peters
> Professor
> La Jolla Institute for Immunology
> 9420 Athena Circle
> <
https://www.google.com/maps/search/9420+Athena+Circle+%0D%0ALa+Jolla,+CA+92037,+USA?entry=gmail&source=g
>
> La Jolla, CA 92037, USA
> <
https://www.google.com/maps/search/9420+Athena+Circle+%0D%0ALa+Jolla,+CA+92037,+USA?entry=gmail&source=g
>
> Tel: 858/752-6914
> Fax: 858/752-6987
> http://www.liai.org/pages/faculty-peters
>
> —
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <#1662 (comment)
>,
> or unsubscribe
> <
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAAMMOOVJ2MTNZSDSPZWFMTW3DR7RANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I
>
> .
> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
> ***@***.***>
>
—
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
<#1662 (comment)>,
or unsubscribe
<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADJX2ITUNTOV4FVSAJQTA7LW3H5DDANCNFSM6AAAAAAVKJFN5I>
.
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID:
***@***.***>
--
Bjoern Peters
Professor
La Jolla Institute for Immunology
9420 Athena Circle
La Jolla, CA 92037, USA
Tel: 858/752-6914
Fax: 858/752-6987
http://www.liai.org/pages/faculty-peters
|
Discussed on call 3/13. The decision was made to follow Chris recommendations and document the use of our design patterns and clean up OBI in the process. The decision was made to do this as part of the OBI to COB migration, which should be used to document the high level classes of OBI in COB for the broader OBO community. 'Planned process' and 'device' would be the favored classes to create named subclasses for in OBI. |
reflection from today's call: if we started using a device template, we could impose consistent modeling |
OBI frequently has the same concept or closely related concepts distributed across different BFO branches. Sometimes the different aspects are coordinated, and sometimes not:
The function branch doesn't appear to have any connection with the process or material branch, I can't find axioms connecting them. The ascribed function of a syringe doesn't seem to connect to the injection function, only to "transfer" (of course syringes can inject or withdraw, but it would seem to have both functions):
over on the process side, there is a connection to an objective branch, which is a 4th BFO branch under information/GDC, this branch seems to have a distinctly function-like aspect. However, while the "objective" of injection is to transform, in contrast to the "injection function", which is to transfer:
Is this distinction intentional or does it reflect the fact that the branches are old developed by different people at different times, etc? What is the use case for breaking things down into elemental concepts like transference, transformation?
the material and process branches appear to be a bit more synchronized; there is a complex axiom connecting syringe and injection:
injection EquivalentTo:
function and
inheres in some syringe)
I think the intent here overall is to model the two things a syringe does - inject and withdraw. But it seems to require a lot of different branches with lots of abstract concepts (I have read the definition of material to be added role a few times and I am not sure I get it). And there are inconsistencies between the branches, it's not clear if this is intentional reflecting different nuances or just the fact it is hard to coordinate multiple branches.
For example:
injection
says introducing a compound or a mixture into a material entity (either biological entity or instrument), but the owl says injection must be realized by a syringe which has more restrictive criteria (fluids)injection
says it must be injected into a vascular system (which strangely includes machines) or tissues, but syringe is more lenient (any material entity)injection
says by means of devices such as syringe or injector connection, but according to the OWL this is restricted to syringes (and what is an injector connection?)Here is a more zoomed out view:
I'm also confused about the duplication between objective and process hierarchies:
These seem to partially mirror one another, but with differences. There also don't seem to be linkages between shadow concepts, e.g. material combination and material combination objective.
I realize there is likely a lot of history here, and I appreciate it is hard to retrospectively fix these things. We have been going through a similar process in GO of removing duplication between MF and BP branches, and it takes time. I appreciate it also takes time to add to the existing excellent but limited visual documentation here (https://obi-ontology.org/docs/core-classes/).
However, for long term maintenance, and to simplify things for users I think it would make sense to commit to either documenting some of the duplication patterns, or to start trimming them down. I'm not totally sure why simply having a process and material entity branch wouldn't suffice for most people who want terms for syringes, injection protocols, etc.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: