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Yet Another Attempt To Fix Vamp #7650

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@ihatethisengine ihatethisengine commented Nov 22, 2024

About the pull request

Tail jab loses extra damage from sprite click and now needs to be charged like tail stab, tail jab applies and respects slash delay like tail stab. In exchange tail jab regains the short stun it had.
Vamp can no longer heal while on fire (balance approved: #7135).
Vamp loses 5 armor (20 > 15).
Flurry CD increased by 1 sec (3 > 4).
Rush distance is increased by 1 (4 > 5), but now the ability can only target mobs and is more consistent at hitting them.

Healer drone's sacrifice now extinguishes the target (balance approved: #7135).

Explain why it's good for the game

To understand the reasoning behind this PR you must read all 300 messages in this thread: https://forum.cm-ss13.com/t/please-nerf-vampire-lurkers-or-do-something-holy-shit/8658

But tl;dr:
TOO MUCH DPS
The main issue with vamp is that this caste has 3 attacking abilities, all of them deal damage. Thus you can use them all in an instance and land a slash on top, as there is no delay between using abilities. This leads to huge burst damage output in an instance: tail jab + rush + flurry + slash deal about 70 damage to armored target. Again, in an instance. To fix this we remove extra damage from direct tail stab (was a dumb idea in the first place, and powercreep), and turn tail jab into something more like tail stab by adding charging and making it apply and respect slash delay. Thus you won't be able to chain it with slash as easily, which lowers the burst damage against armored target to about 50. To land that extra slash you need to overstay your welcome which is a fair risk if we are to apply other changes.

Now to the stun. It was removed in an attempt to solve the issue with good vamp players killing the entire frontline. Truth is, it wasn't the reason, the burst damage was. If you have good ping and/or good at chaining abilities, you don't need to rely on the tiny stun to be able to offload your combo. With current armor values you don't even need to care as much about PB. So I truly believe that stun removal only made inexperienced players lives worse, who try to learn the caste, while barely affecting good players. Now in combination with all the other changes, short stun should be an important part of the kit, as you are now more vulnerable to damage. It shouldn't turn the caste into another base lurker, because the micro stun mostly only gives you some leeway against PB, temporary lowers incoming damage (by making your enemy drop the weapon) and makes it easier for new players to finish their combo.

TOO MUCH SURVIVABILITY
Rush being a "get out of jail" card on the fastest caste in the game seems not right. You really have enough speed to run away, you don't need to rely on dash to play the game (You maybe needed it against surprise PBs, but now you can control incoming PBs with the stun). This is why I make it target only mobs. I include friendly mobs, so rush keeps some escaping utility, but now it's more limited. The distance is now increased, but the effective leap distance is pretty much stays the same as 5th tile is usually the target. It's also a bit easier to land now, as you basically cannot missclick, which is another nod to inexperienced players.

20 armor is honestly a lot. It made vamp way tankier than base lurker. Even with 15 armor it's still tankier, but now it's at least close. I think having both high speed and high effective health is not something that the caste is supposed to have. Now getting shot and getting PBed is actually scary, but with stun coming back you can control PBs and incoming damage to a degree.

Flurry CD is just comically short, so increasing it is the only option. It goes both in DPS and survivability sections, as flurry is yet another attacking ability you can use to chain with slash and increase your DPS, but also gives you 30 hp for every target you hit. 1 second is not much, but I believe it is needed.

Everything regarding fire is carried over from ghostsheet PR.

Testing Photographs and Procedure

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Changelog

🆑 ihatethisengine
balance: Tail jab loses extra damage from sprite click and now needs to be charged like tail stab, tail jab applies and respects slash delay like tail stab.
balance: Tail jab regains short (0.5 seconds) stun.
balance: Vamp can no longer heal while on fire.
balance: Flurry CD increased by 1 sec (3 > 4).
balance: Rush distance is increased by 1 (4 > 5), but now the ability can only target mobs and is more consistent at hitting them.
balance: Healer drone's sacrifice now extinguishes the target.
/:cl:

@cmss13-ci cmss13-ci bot added the Balance You need to be a professional veteran game maintainer to comprehend what is being done here. label Nov 22, 2024
@ihatethisengine ihatethisengine marked this pull request as draft November 22, 2024 05:25
@ihatethisengine ihatethisengine marked this pull request as ready for review November 22, 2024 06:31
@Red-byte3D
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the entire reason i removed the stun was that because you do not need to aim it at all, i dont think it needs ot come back

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@Drulikar Drulikar left a comment

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I think this is going too far with the nerfs. I will not approve this without the tailstab doing some damage.

Revert all changes to tail jab and instead just remove the extra damage on sprite click.

@Drulikar Drulikar marked this pull request as draft November 23, 2024 05:57
@ihatethisengine ihatethisengine marked this pull request as ready for review November 23, 2024 11:27
@DorfGuy1
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For the love of god, dont' give them stuns. They don't need it. Having to charge your tailstrike and a little damage is worth way less than a stun.

@Drulikar Drulikar added Testmerge Candidate we'll test this while you're asleep and the server has 10 players Needs Testing Need to test it on the guinea pigs (production server) labels Jan 16, 2025
@ihatethisengine
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ihatethisengine commented Jan 17, 2025

Made rush less clunky at hitting mobs (should not be as sidesteppable as pounce since it now requires a direct click).

Reverted armor nerf, as I think rush changes probably did just enough to lower the vamp survivability. Wish to watch how the changes will play with the old armor values.

cm13-github added a commit that referenced this pull request Jan 17, 2025
cm13-github added a commit that referenced this pull request Jan 17, 2025
cm13-github added a commit that referenced this pull request Jan 17, 2025
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4 participants