PDA uplinks locking while in FTL, while evac exists and on the arrivals terminal #34359
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S: Untriaged
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You just put its number on this PR without using the specific format that will cause an autoclose. Like this: They are now |
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Sorry, touchscreen moment |
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Thanks errant |
Okay but seriously I just assumed doing that would autoclose the issue Does it only autoclose if you add fixes before? |
Yes there are a few keywords that do that "fixes X" "closes X" not sure about the rest I slways just use "fixes" |
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Force locking uplinks during FTL isn't going to do anything. Shuttle bombing is already against the rules in MRP. It's allowed in LRP still as long as it doesnt cause excessive death. Let's also not completely ruin doing objectives on shuttle. This PR is only going to cause problems. |
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I'd also like to mention they specifly state that DAGDs are allowed to do this still so you are not only adding a feature that is bloat but you are also actively making a feature that completely ruins a rule placed to let DAGDs have more freedom. |
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counterpoint, if it's against the rules, why is the player allowed to do it? there's generally a preference to try and turn rules into mechanics, as it helps reduce admin workload. you also had the entirety of the shift to do your objectives, that's most of the time at least an hour, game mechanics should discourage doing them on evac during the last 2 minutes instead of the first hour |
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I dont think you understand when I literally said you can wake up from cryo seconds before evac and roll syndicate. You can be forced to do them on evac as well even if you had it for over 30 minutes. This is quite literally a bad change and it will only cause bugs in the future with the uplink. |
because its encouraged to do as DAGD? what kind of counterpoint is this supposed to be |
again. before responding read what i said. you can roll syndicate SECONDS before evac. you can roll it minutes before it. i've rolled syndie with DAGD as evac docked before. |
i agree! this is not good design! however it is one, unrelated to this pr, and two, could probably be fixed the same way that sleeper agents are fixed, just... stop letting them roll while evac is coming |
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lets also mention how there are times where evac gets called 20 minutes into the round due to singulo/tesla. what then? just take away their syndicate status cause fuck them? |
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i would also like to mention that, while i didn't do it since i didn't want to bikeshed too much, the component for blocking uplinks could be easily added to cc and arrivals if wanted |
If you're getting syndicate onboard the shuttle then you were never doing your objectives anyway. |
There's no need to "fuck them", cause in a case of tesla or singulo being loose everyone's already fucked. These are round-ending cataclysms that break the round for every antagonist and non-antagonist out there. It's bad luck for evertyone, and fixing an annoying and lame practice of shuttlebombing has much larger value than giving the syndies a consolation prize of bombing the shuttle with those few who managed to survive a loose. |
lzk228
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P3: Standard
Apologies, let me rephrase. This change is easily worked around by traitors, who can just fill their bag with explosives/carps/whatever before boarding the shuttle (there's no such thing as an efficient sec checkpoint) or even buy a syndie bomb 3 seconds before the shuttle leaves. This is why I mean by it being a bandaid, as shuttlebombings and other mass shuttle destruction are caused by a design flaw in evac that doesn't have a simple mechanics fix. As long as the assassination targets have a 100% chance to be on the evac shuttle, mass shuttle destruction is an almost 100% greentext strategy and it will keep happening, no matter how many mechanics quickfix PRs we make. |
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In fact I should probably open an issue on the topic instead of repeating the same argument on said bandaid PRs >.> |
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Overall preventing shuttlebombing is generally a good thing, will this affect ftling on non-evac shuttles? I.e. salv shittes/sec prisoner transfer etc |
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okay chat i'm gonna rework this slightly so it can be applied to the emergency shuttle as well instead of being limited to only maps |
I DID IT LARRY I DID IT YOU CAN'T BOMB EVAC ANYMORE
Callmore
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description and title updated |
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Should make it ccvar |
Turns on and off uplink locking
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there is now a cvar |
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I've just had a mild realisation |
If you couple this with a contraband scanner you could quite easily give security the exact tools they need to try and prevent shuttle bombings from happening. |
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Why keeping the idea of objective list when said objective are not even objective but validating list of suggestions? |
Escape pods have never counted as escaping alive for both traitors and crew, I don’t know when people started thinking that they used to. |
indeed, but it also never counted you as dead/marooned for the purpose of the "objective". but because of that change people do indeed prefer to try and make antagonist fail that objective, and also made it easier for traitor to get their "objective" no matter what because the shuttle will end up either in space dust or molten slag. because they are not punished for doing what you should be considering the last solution. THE solution; while also not bringing ANYTHING to the current round. people cried and keep crying on the little number of PR that added even a small chance for greenshift, only themselves to cause greenshift for 95% of the shifts they are playing(i am indeed considering shift when nothing is happening but shuttle bombing a greenshift because it doesn't matter at this point, i don't know why they are even bothering to grief everyone at round end with explosive. at this point why even keeping traitor as antagonist if all they do is shuttle bombing?) |
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I mean, magicking items out of thin air using uplink always felt gamey to me. Maybe we should implement more RP way of obtaining contra. Easiest way would be to use disposals bins and mailing units as shops, maybe sprinke some "destroyed" mailing units in maints. |
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could we uh |
I'm gonna be honest, I'm not in a position to write something like that, however your free to try! |
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I disagree with this but I believe the better fix would be to disable uplink purchases rather than locking the pda |
i don't particularly like this idea just because I'm concerned it will interfere with nukies, but if there's a general consensus on it I'll look into doing that instead |
i don't want to interfere with loneops since they're unable to do their job if they can't buy any equipment, and i somehow feel it's more okay for them to blow up the shuttle if need be |
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Wait escape pods don't count as successful escape to centcomm? If so that's a massive bug that should be fixed. An escape is an escape |
iirc it's intended, if you want to escape you gotta go though evac |
It's been intended behavior since infamous, now banned antag roller Sosa complained that he couldn't get greentext every round, as sometimes he just wouldn't find his target. |
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okay chat time to mald pr it locking all purchaces after being murdered by two bombs on evac |
escape pods brings you to centcomm, thus are meant to count as secondary method to reach centcomm alive. |
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Here’s my opinion on the change: It’s a good effort but I really doubt it’s going to make a difference. Anyone who thinks ahead and buys their bombs beforehand is still going to be able to get on the shuttle and set them off. The only thing this directly nerfs is hardbombing the shuttle, which was already not a good idea since you had to plant it before the shuttle takes off or the crew could just wait out the timer and get off at CC before it blows up. The reason for this is this searching sixty people before they board the shuttle is a virtually impossible task. Evac docks are not equipped for screening people who are getting on, and even if they were, players are just going to try to get around them because nobody is going to want to get in a massive line to be searched. Even if a would be bomber does consent to being searched, they can just have their bombs in a storage implant and still blow up the shuttle. Even then, the evac dock isn’t even the only way people can get on: most emergency shuttles have airlocks facing space that anyone with a hardsuit can just walk through. And with everyone in security focusing on trying to screen people at the evac dock, nobody is going to call out the salvager who went in through the airlock and the shuttle is still going to get blown up. Looking at this PR in a vacuum, I don’t see it actually making a meaningful difference in stopping shuttlebombings because you still have to search and then detain someone to get the bombs. Even if you consider the contraband detector PR, this can still lead to false positives, the ones baked into the machine and the ones from people carrying contraband that isn’t a bomb, that cause the searches to be slowed down even more. Keep in mind that this all these searches and screenings have to be done in three minutes, otherwise the shuttle is going to leave. You can’t just prescreen people either, because then they can just buy a bomb before the shuttle docks. The point I’m trying to make here is that short of drastic measures like being unable to prime a bomb on the evac shuttle at all, there is always going to be a way to bomb the shuttle by nature of this being a sandbox game. There’s no singular method of blowing up the evac shuttle, so you’re now entering into an arms race of constantly trying to figure out how to stop this when there’s always another, craftier, way to do it. And why wouldn’t people do it? It’s the fastest way to get your objective done, it’s the most probable way to ensure your target is going to stay dead, it gives security the least amount of time to arrest you and ruin your greentext, and style points aren’t being tracked. And if you don’t want to get blown up as a bystander, that’s what escape pods are for in the first place- a way to escape the station without taking the shuttle. Overall this is just treating the symptoms of the problem instead of actually getting to the source- the kill objective sucks. It not only needs you to figure out how to kill someone without security knowing, but requires you to make sure they stay dead- which encourages either round removing the player, which is usually extremely planning intensive, or killing them when there’s the least amount of time for them to be revived- so bombing them on the shuttle. And this sucks, because unlike the steal objective, which mostly consists of thieving gloving the the target for their item, this is a very mechanically complex objective to pull off, with a lot of ways to approach it. But requiring the target to stay dead removes most of that creativity in favor of gibbing someone in maints or blowing them up on the shuttle. And unless the kill objective gets changed, shuttlebombing is still going to be the optimal strategy for accomplishing it. tldr: instead of trying to prevent shuttlebombing change it so shuttlebombing isn’t the best strategy. Rework the kill objective so the target doesn’t need to be dead when the round ends, just that you’ve killed them at some point. |
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i feel just stating one thing will be the solution is itself misguided |
I’m not saying changing the kill objective is going to completely prevent it- there’s always going to be someone who still decides to wait to evac to blow up their target. But in my opinion it’s a cleaner solution than trying to mechanically prevent blowing up the shuttle when there’s a limitless amount of ways to do it. |
About the PR
PDA uplinks are automatically locked when FTL is started and cannot be unlocked until they are done.
Also throws up popups when this happens. The popups are only visible to either the person attempting to unlock or to the person holding the PDA when it locks.
update: it now locks while evac is docked, might need more notifications in chat or something
@Errant-4
#34314
Why / Balance
shuttlebombing moment
reduce admin workload moment
Technical details
New component that can be applied to maps that will make the unlock code not unlock called
LockableUplinkBlockedMapComponent. Makes uplinks just unable to be unlocked while on those maps.Media
uplink.mp4
Requirements
Breaking changes
Changelog
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